Taiko @ Arcadia 2009 (success!)

Taiko @ Arcadia 2009

Details
Date: Aug 23, 2009 (Sun)
Time: 12pm - 4pm
Venue: Arcadia @ Iluma
Registration: $9, inclusive of game play
Maximum 24 participants (but may be raised, depending on participation)
Registration opens Aug 12, 2009. Registration forms are available at the Iluma counter, and a copy of the registration form can be downloaded @ http://www.megaupload.com/?d=TYIYVZZG or http://www.mediafire.com/?awhknnvgxm0, but it has to be submitted at Iluma.

Prizes
Entry into Arcadia Hall of Fame for top 3 players + $30 worth of prizes for the winner

COMPETITION FLOW

Summary
1. The 24 participants will be randomly divided into eight groups of three for the Group Stage.
2. Group winners will automatically qualify for KO.
3. Group second-placed players will compete in Revival Stage 1 for four places in KO.
4. Group third-placed players will compete in Revival Stage 2 for two places in KO.
5. All players who failed to make the cut in each revival stage will compete in the Final Revival Stage for two places in KO.
6. KO will be conducted in single-elimination.

Group Stage
1. The playlist for each group comprises of three random songs of 困难 or 魔王 difficulty, capped at 8 stars.
2. Each player’s scores are then totaled to produce his/her aggregate score for the Group Stage.
3. The player with the highest aggregate score will automatically qualify for KO. The second-placed and third-placed players will proceed to Revival Stages 1 and 2 respectively.

Revival Stages 1 & 2
1. The playlist comprises of two random songs of 困难 or 魔王 difficulty, capped at 8 stars for Stage 1 and 7 stars for Stage 2.
2. Each player’s scores are then totaled to produce his/her aggregate score for the Revival Stages.
3. The top four players in Revival Stage 1 and top two players in Revival Stage 2 with the highest aggregate scores will qualify for KO. All remaining players will proceed to Final Revival Stage.

Final Revival Stage
1. The playlist consists of one random song of 困难 or 魔王 difficulty, capped at 7 stars.
2. The top two players with the highest song scores will qualify for KO.

Knockout Stage (KO)
1. The Knockout Stage is conducted single-elimination style.
2. The eight group winners are placed such that they do not meet one another in the first round. The eight players who qualified for KO via the Revival Stages are then randomly assigned as their opponents.
3. The playlist comprises of two songs of the players’ choice and one random song, for a total of three songs.
4. Before the start of the game, each player chooses one song of 困难 or 魔王 difficulty, capped at 9 stars.
5. One random song of 魔王 difficulty, capped at 9 stars are chosen to complete the playlist. For the first round of KO, the player who went through the revival stages decides the order of the playlist. In the subsequent rounds this playlist is shuffled.
6. Each player’s scores are then weighted (as below) to produce his/her aggregate score for the game.

Song chosen by self	20%
Song chosen by opponents	35%
Random song	45%
TOTAL	100%

7. The player with the higher aggregate score wins.

General Rules & Regulations
1. Players are allowed to use their personal drumsticks for this competition, as long as they do not interfere with the other player in any way during game play.
2. A song may be chosen by each player only once during the competition.
3. In the spirit of taiko drumming, shouting and cheering are allowed. However, cheers which are deemed to be insulting or aggressive will not be tolerated.
4. The umpire reserves the right to caution, or even disqualify, players for actions which demonstrate bad sportsmanship. Such actions include jeering or insulting a player, causing interference to a player during a game, etc.
5. The organizers will not be held responsible for any injuries and/or casualties which may arise in the course of competition.
6. The organizers reserve the right to alter any of the rules without prior information.

To admin: Perhaps this needs to be sticky-ed ASAP. Thanks.

Lax CK~ No one else is trying to liase with arcadia. The manager just happened to be there and told makio abt arcadia going to import new taiko 12 machines. I think we're more than happy to leave the planning of the competition to u. ^^

=Put to Announcement=
I will move this thread to the Events section once everything has been finalized.

Something to note: CK is really the ONLY contact person between Arcadia and TaikoDojo for the competition. It's been set. We'll hear from CK soon. =)

Let's all thank CK for taking up the lead role of this project with Arcadia.

Well personally I don't really want to bring up the competition matter into the forum (yet), but since someone has already started mentioning it, guess it can't be helped now. We'll just have to wait for more updates from CK soon.

And as for the new Taiko machines in Arcadia, I only got the information only yesterday, and I did NOT approach the staff or management for it, rather one of them kinda approach me suddenly while I was looking at one of the UFO games. And that's when he started telling me what's in store for Arcadia by end of this month. Since there is two different information now, I'm not sure which is correct. Thus, let's all not discuss about it further for I do not wish to bring false hopes to everyone.

It's good to share and have views, however, I believe that when things are finalized in Arcadia & TaikoDojo side, we will publish out the necessary information.

Can't blame cos' not all of us are aware of it. Only those involved will know. So till then, let's wait and hear CK's update. =D

Lol ok all up to ck then =p looking forward to hearing from ya

Err sorry about bringing it up without your consent, man it's only been a few days inside the forum and I already made CK mad.

First of all, I'm not mad at anybody or what, really. It's just that there's been too much empty talk about a competition in the past, but nobody was around to follow through.

With Arcadia being the one expressing an interest in organizing a competition, this is a great chance for us to work together with them, and in the process we can gain publicity for our forum. I just don't want to pass up on this opportunity.

Also, I'd wanted to inform everyone about this once the details were finalized, but since word is going around, I might as well take this chance to tell everyone that yeah, things are in the works. However, please don't take my word for it that it will go through, because no matter how viable a proposal we submit, in the end the decision lies with Arcadia.

Finally, I want to apologize if I ruffled anyone with my strong remarks. I'd just wanted to get my point across once and for all, no hard feelings.

In the meantime, constructive feedback for the following topics are welcome:
1. Date(s) of competition
2. Competition format(s)
3. Judging criteria

YukariKaito wrote:Err sorry about bringing it up without your consent, man it's only been a few days inside the forum and I already made CK mad.

Haha relax he's not mad.... don't think too much He just doesn't want this great chance to promote TKDJ and the game in Singapore to go awry. Quite a lot is at stake! (Especially when you compare Acardia's enthusiasm and Zone-X's enthusiasm for such competitions... *coughcough*)

I think he will appreciate less speculation on things such as benefits for the people joining the competition (i.e. PRIZES!!!), competition format etc etc. But less speculation doesn't mean denying suggestions! If anyone has any worthy ideas, please feel free to contribute! I cannot emphasize this point enough.

One thing to bear in mind though, this is not a competition to sieve out the "Elite" players in Singapore.

Mint wrote:

YukariKaito wrote:Err sorry about bringing it up without your consent, man it's only been a few days inside the forum and I already made CK mad.

Haha relax he's not mad.... don't think too much He just doesn't want this great chance to promote TKDJ and the game in Singapore to go awry. Quite a lot is at stake! (Especially when you compare Acardia's enthusiasm and Zone-X's enthusiasm for such competitions... *coughcough*)

I think he will appreciate less speculation on things such as benefits for the people joining the competition (i.e. PRIZES!!!), competition format etc etc. But less speculation doesn't mean denying suggestions! If anyone has any worthy ideas, please feel free to contribute! I cannot emphasize this point enough.

One thing to bear in mind though, this is not a competition to sieve out the "Elite" players in Singapore.

Yes, our main aim is NOT to see who's the "Elite" players OR who can trash who. Please do have a wider and further perspective instead of coping up with such narrow minded "I-can-win-most-people" attitude.

ongchinkai wrote:First of all, I'm not mad at anybody or what, really. It's just that there's been too much empty talk about a competition in the past, but nobody was around to follow through.

With Arcadia being the one expressing an interest in organizing a competition, this is a great chance for us to work together with them, and in the process we can gain publicity for our forum. I just don't want to pass up on this opportunity.

Also, I'd wanted to inform everyone about this once the details were finalized, but since word is going around, I might as well take this chance to tell everyone that yeah, things are in the works. However, please don't take my word for it that it will go through, because no matter how viable a proposal we submit, in the end the decision lies with Arcadia.

Finally, I want to apologize if I ruffled anyone with my strong remarks. I'd just wanted to get my point across once and for all, no hard feelings.

In the meantime, constructive feedback for the following topics are welcome:
1. Date(s) of competition
2. Competition format(s)
3. Judging criteria

Well ok, I'll give general suggestions =p

1. Date
Preferrably after drumzout I think, cuz things could be a bit messy, organizing a competition while we're going to take part in one

2. Formats

Format A: Individual Competition

Each person pays an entry fee of say, $3-10 or around there to enter the competition. Anyway, in terms of numbers related to participants from here on, there will be a STC (subject to change) behind to emphasize that this number will be subject to change due to factor of how many total people will actually participate in the end.

1st round: It'll be sort of a round robin with playing against, say, 2-4 (STC) other players or so.

2nd Round: Let's say top 32 (STC) or so participants get through. Anyway, another sort of round robin will be held, playing against 2(STC) or so other players and comparing results to see who gets to final round

Final Round: At last, the tournament tree. Top 16 (STC) will battle it out in a tournament tree format, we can put 1-16 in the tree then ask each player draw a number. If judges feel that it's too random or unfair, can do moderation in case a lot of ppl of a standard get lumped together and stuff.

We can't have tournament tree in 1st & 2nd round cuz if people get kicked out cause they face a tough player in their first game, it's sorta unfair =( and they need to get some of their money's worth =p at least in the amount of games, but anyway, amount of games are also subject to change based on organizers

We also can't have only 1 game, cuz let's say a person faces a tough opponent in their ONE game, and get kicked out like that, but 2-4 is just a suggestion and can be change if organisers think it takes too long. They should get to play a bit, I think =p

Format B: Team Battles

Instead of totally individual competition, can have teams too, like of 3-5 ppl. Then teams battle all the way up to the top 8 teams, THEN from there they split up and do individually, OR continue all the way as a team battle, that one will be organizers decisions. Just a alternative suggestion anyway, other than only individual battles.

Lol we can split ourselves into TKDJ 1 (Fire), TKDJ2 (Water), TKDJ3 (Wind), TKDJ4 (Earth), etc. etc. XD and battle random teams from public who call themselves things like "S.H.E" or "T.I.D (Tenjiku Indian Dancers)" or "V.H.U (Very hip uncles)" and so on. I mean, you get the idea xD

3. Judging Criteria:

WHAT: Cannot SOLELY base on something, cuz it'll be sorta unfair. Like, cannot only wins & losses cuz even if 3-6 is fairer than just 1 game, the person may even face strong players in ALL their games. As to how to decide the opponents, that'll be up to organizers, it could be random or controlled or a mixture. Score ALONE also not too good cuz of the score counting based on combo keeping (some ppl could keep combo for longer), so should use overall accuracy factor also.

But criteria won't be needed for the tournament round though =p cuz it's just "I fight you, whoever loses = out"

HOW: Something like, upon 100 points.....
Individual Competition Criterion: 15% for Wins & Losses (cannot too high due to possible unfair matchups)
Personal Choice Score Criterions: 30% for overall accuracy, 10% based on score (cannot too high weightage for score, but must give a little credit to the "combo-keepers" =p)
Opponent Choice Score Criterions: 15% based on overall accuracy, 5% based on score
Judges Decisions: 25% based on Judges Rating (Will explain later)


Person Criterias
15% based on wins & losses

Overall, it's simple and easy to count. Eg. 3 wins 2 losses = 60%, take it of 15% = 9 pts. But here are the DETAILS to calculate whether it's a win or loss.

Wins & Losses are counted on who has a higher total score & who won for each individual song. Must count like individual song wins cuz some songs have higher scores so if a person chooses songs that can get him high scores, his total score will be high. But also must count total score at the end, cuz some ppl win individual songs by narrow margins. Total score winner = 2 pts. Song score winner = 1 pt

Scenario: Let's say, A plays against B. A picks Saitama and wins with 1m-500k. B picks Sakuranbo and wins with 700k-750k. A picks Mecha and loses with 700k-720k, and B picks Fantasie and wins with 700k-750k. Total score winner must get 2 pts, while for each song win, get 1 pts. A won for total + 1 song = 3 pts. B won for 3 songs = 3 pts. It's a tie =p this method is required to balance out, cuz if even A wins overall, he actually lost for 3 songs, we need to give the 3 wins credit to B.

Personal Score Criterias

Bear with me for a bit, must emphasize smth for all score criterion, that is about the WEIGHTAGE. Since the counting of liang/ke/bu ke could vary due to difficulty of song, higher leveled songs should get more weightage, cuz they'll endeavor more notes (which also means more chances for bu kes XD)

Something like, 10* have a weightage of 5x, and 9* weightage is 4.5x, etc. all the way to 1* = 0.5x, but this doesn't mean that u play 10* you'll get higher score, just that if u get higher score in harder songs, it will weigh heavier (which COULD be good OR bad) when counting the overall percentage.

Eg. let's say when a person plays 5 songs, four 10* and one 8*, that's a total of 24x%, so we just divide it by 24 to get x%, which will be taken OVER your relative score percentage (30%, 10%, etc.)

So, back to weightage, if you choose a harder song and get a >.< kind of score and end up pull yourself down, that's sort of... your fault xD But also, to prevent ppl from constantly re-selecting similar songs, let's say a person plays a 10* TWICE, he won't get percentages upon 10x, but the average percentage for both plays still upon 5x only. So for those spammers out there... whoops =x anyway, time to start on the scores

30% based on overall accuracy

Take it this way, a liang is 1 points, a ke is 0.6 point, and a bu ke is 0 points. Following this, let's say a song has 1000 notes. The total potential accuracy score is 1000, so let's say I get all kes, then i'll get 60% for this song. Then, using the weightage thing, once overall accuracy percentage is calculated based on x%, we take x% over 30%.

10% based on score

This one is easy to calculate. If total possible score of a song is 1m, you get 800k, then you get 80% for that song. Weightage rules still apply =p In the end, this is taken upon 10%

Opponent Score Criterias

Same as the previous one but lower overall weightage because opponents may choose songs you're not good at. But if they choose something u are good at, then good for you =p

Judges Decisions

Due to some people narrowly passing by "loop-holing" this mechanical score counting system, judges must rate too =p (judges can be decided later, but they must have some authenticity) anyway, they'll rate your skill this way:

25% based on Judges Ratings

Let's say there are 5 judges, so each person weighs 5%. If they rate you upon 10 like this, 7/10, 9/10, 8/10, 7/10, 9/10, you'll get average of 80%, which is 20/25 points =p


All this is just a general proposal suggestion, so if you find it a bother reading it or the ideas very silly, feel free to ignore it =x

er...i think this score criteria is a bit confusing....but the format A is quite ok-looking to me....

Ice_ wrote:er...i think this score criteria is a bit confusing....but the format A is quite ok-looking to me....

lol ya i admit it's quite confusing to look at it like that but if anyone wants/needs better explanation can just ask me ><

The format I've been using for years of holding mini-competitions is the double elimination. (I'm not in the gaming industry for no reason lol. I personally find this the most fair, since if you're unlucky to meet a really strong player that you have no chance to win, you still stand a chance to beat another person from the losing side)

I'll give a brief description. Everyone has 2 chances, to be fair in case you met a really stronger player than you.

There will be a winner section, and the loser section. The winner will fight the winner, and the loser will fight the loser.

Example, let's use 4 people, name them A, B, C and D.

A will face off D
B will face off C

A and C wins,
B and D loses.

Now, A will face C
D will face B (Whoever loses here will be out)

So, assume:

C won, A loses
D won, B loses. Here, B has already lost to C in the first round and D in the second round, he lost twice, so he's out.


Now D will face off A while C waits for a winner from here.

Assume

D won. A has lost to C previously and now D, a total of 2 times, so he's out.

Now C and D face off each other for champion and first runner up.

So, a SWOT analysis or sort of.

Pros:

When you lose, you still have a chance to make a comeback
Fairer choice of playing compared to single elimination. Shorter time than triple elimination.

Cons:
If you have a lot of people, it will take VERY LONG. (But I have done it before, organizing a competition which has 100 people in it, and we used double elimination (but we had 8 machines, the competition spanning over 3 days)
If you really damn sway 2 times meet more pro than you... I got nothing to say.

Yes I believe double-KO is fairer than single-KO, so if I do implement a KO format, it will be the former rather than the latter. Point noted.

U might also wanna consider using the taiko 12 machines for the competition, since most of TKDJ ppl have cleared at least like, 90% of the songs, so it'd be fairer to compete on a brand new machine with brand new songs?

@Giaz: btw giaz, that's a pretty good idea for the format, but if you'd think it'll take too long, then we can split ppl into 4 ppl in a "lump" and make them battle within the "lump". But when it reaches a top 8/16/etc. number, I still think we should switch to tournament tree =p

Judging wise, we shouldn't only use wins & losses cuz there may be unfair "lumpings", like a lot of ppl of a certain standard get "lumped" together, so should also use the score criteria thing I mentioned. This way, certain ppl won't end up being neglected for their achievements score-wise.

So like, in a lump, all 4 could go through, or only 1 can go through. It all depends. Also, to be more fair, may wanna use that "Win & Loss" Criteria together with score criteria, to decide on whether the person won or loss. As I was saying, 2 pts for total score winner, 1 pts for individual song winner, then see who gets more over 6 =p so that draws are possible

@Ruby: Lol yeah, probably have to use those machines anyway, if they're importing, cuz anyway, not everyone can play on only 1 taiko 11 machine (competition will take years to finish XD)

haha to me, its not the duration, but more regarding the fairness of the comp. thats all.

but actually not everybody have cleared at least 90% of the songs...at least not me...

oh ya, and does this competition only involves TKDJ ppl, or does it open to the general public as well?...

Ice_ wrote:but actually not everybody have cleared at least 90% of the songs...at least not me...

I think you already have xD being able to pass all or most songs up to 8-9 stars should be abt 90% i think. Aiya even if cannot, doesn't really matter, win or lose as long as have fun can le.

And since it's a new machine, there'll be new songs, and thus, everyone will begin on same standard (or at most, sight-reading is the only factor sets them apart, which means i'm probably gonna die xD cuz i'm more of memory type =p) and i've seen X-DAY2000, it's almost kita standard or smth >< fast and running notes

btw, giaz's double KO format dun have to be used in first 2 rounds of Format A, but only just before the last round, to be a bit fairer. So rather than we ask judges to moderate ppl based on standards for tournament round (in case of unfair matchup), we use double KO thingy. Put the 16 ppl into 4 groups or smth and use giaz's method. Then a more fair amount of ppl will get to the final round (which could be almost all, or only half) then from there we use tournament tree to begin final round.

Ice wrote:oh ya, and does this competition only involves TKDJ ppl, or does it open to the general public as well?...

I think general public also. Liddat better mah, cannot only have our ppl, then like... only around 30+ ppl at most meh >.< must have public, cuz arcadia is not "all for dojo only" policy cuz they also wan make money =p

nope...12 10* out of 114 songs is already 10%, not to say i cant pass some 8 - 9 stars....

oh ya, i nt saying this to contradict on the version of machine or wad, cause it dun affect me, i just saying this out of fact...

Time doesn't matter.

If time matters then why do WCG, GCA and such spans over like 3 days, and before that, qualifiers and etcs and not one day? It is possible to have it in a day, but things will get messy as well as people will go nuts. Imagine challenging like 10-12 groups per day, at very competitive paces.

Any normal human will go nuts. (Maybe not them or me, but using this kind of paces will not be suitable for the public)

If we have a lot of people then, it'll have to take place over a period of 2 days or more, with grace in-between for players so that we can let them rest. After all, this is for fun and not to stress people out.