Elitism and Organization
5 posters
Page 1 of 2
Page 1 of 2 • 1, 2 
Elitism and Organization
by Pyrozz Tue Nov 18, 2008 4:00 am
So I here's the original posts that sparked this topic:
My input:
I think there needs to be more forum sections and more specific descriptions for each section. There is, for example, the "Taiko" section with "PS2, wii, Ds, etc". I think the appeal of the "taiko" section could be misleading. In fact, I don't know if we know what to post there, other than console-related things. I would suggest changing the description to welcome questions and discussion. The self introduction section should have a topic for each person, I believe.
Something that turns me off a bit is massive threads. I stopped going to the chit-chat section because there was so many posts inside each thread to file through. I believe that if we are able to create a little more organization, there will be less massive threads. Massive threads also turn off newcomers. Think about it, if you want to join a discussion, you feel obligated to read all the posts in the thread (or most of it) before you feel remotely confident about posting a reply. The only way people will feel welcomed to post is if they become apart of the first few posts of a thread (or start the thread themselves), so they know what's really going on in the discussion.
Do you notice, though, how people are trying to create "rooms" in threads? This is causing massive thread build up. There is a displeased thread, happy thread, "random" thread, funny video thread... People should feel free to create a new thread of their own, they shouldn't feel obligated to reply to a thread if they are feeling displeased, happy, random. Let's say I had a bad day taiko-ing, and I want advice on if I should practice taiko-ing when I'm in a bad mood. If I post a new thread about this, I can be sure that all the replies will be about practicing taiko-ing on a bad day. If I post this in the "displeased" thread, then any new replies could be about anything... Like 4chan. >.<
I think though, that the chit-chat section has become a black hole. It's like a wild card, you can post ANYTHING there. Personally, I don't see that working out well. We should probably have a "random" section, and a "community" section. Community would be anything related to the forum, us, taiko-related chit chat. and random would be... anything NOT related to Taiko.
So, my thought is that smaller threads = more welcoming. Let's lighten up on the "Post your ____ here thread!" and "The ____ thread!" threads.
And the descriptions for the sections, although cute, should be a little more assertive and descriptive. I don't think we should be shy to say "No posting ____ here!". And chit-chat = black hole.
EDIT: I made some word choice changes and organized this a little better.
ongchinkai wrote:Alright, this is slightly off the topic for this thread, but I think now is the time to ruffle some feathers.
As one of the founding members of this forum, I'm quite happy that this forum is steadily gaining the publicity it needs. In fact, if there's even anything I can gripe about, it would be that we aren't growing fast enough!
However, there are some issues about the current state of the forum which I would like to express. Note that I'm not pointing fingers at anyone here; neither is this a ranting thread about my dissatisfaction - which at the moment is none.
Too many off-topic threads and duplicate threads
As Pyrozz stated above, Yuu is our only moderator at present. This is all well and good since our numbers haven't even touched half a hundred. However, it is quite apparent that when she is absent...let's just say that things become a bit disorganized?
I understand that some of us are very enthusiastic about this forum, and so we try to participate actively by replying as often as we can. However, we must always bear in mind the topic of the threads that we are replying to, and try not to veer off-track.
Regarding the topic of duplicate threads, I think of them as threads which have overlapping purposes. Something can be done about these too, in my opinion.
So what we can do on our parts is to keep our replies to the point; banter attracts more banter. In addition, if anyone sees that a topic is off-track, feel free to put the discussion back on track tactfully (if you're replying) or not reply at all (if you're not). I think this could handily solve the problem of duplicate threads too.
Elitism
For the note, I'll just reiterate that this forum is open to all taiko enthusiasts, not just players aspiring to be like BLYX or YUU.
Having said that, and having read the replies of some of the more recent posters, I've come to the conclusion that our forum is becoming a bit intimidating.
At present, almost all the active members are oni-players. As such, our discussion tends to gravitate around that level. Anyone new to this forum and not at that level yet will find it hard to break into the discussion.
It does NOT help that we're friendly and not condescending. In the end, it's a psychological barrier. How would you feel if everyone was discussion about calculus, and you want to ask anyone of them what is 1 + 1? Exaggerated, but I hope you see my point.
What we can do right now...is to not limit our targets to just muzukashii/oni players. We are preaching that, but are we doing that? Actually I'm very guilty of this too, because now that I'm playing oni, I find it hard to think like that of a kantan/futsuu player (mint can tell you that now I yawn a lot when I look at kantan/futsuu songs), and subsequently identify anyone who is enthusiastic but not at my level yet.
At present, I don't see any solutions for this. In any case, it takes a brave soul to break the clique, but once things start, it won't stop, hopefully.
I rest my case.
HareHareYukai wrote:I have to agree that the forum is getting intimidating, but there also has to be room to discuss more high-level stuff.
and it is also very noticeable that many people find it hard to fit into discussions or even speak up, resulting in constant browsing of the forum yet no posting.
I think for now, all we can do is to encourage fellow taiko-ers to speak up and express their views and questions, because we cannot entirely stop discussing about high-level goals, targets, scoring, method of play etc,i mean this is also part of the forum's purpose, that we have a space to discuss this.
Another point raised was the great social stratification as stated by ck. people all seem to have been classified into specific oni, muzukashi, fuutsu or kantan players to the extent that it's been used to classify if they are really interested or have enjoy taiko.
Yet, even though we try to minimize this in deciding if someone enjoys/has interest in taiko, it is obviously, and most of the time as well, hard to decide if someone is purely interested if we do not look at the level of difficulty one is playing. We do know that part of the players who play fuutsu or kantan are really enjoying themselves, but we just can't differentiate them unless they express it enthusiastically that it catches our attention.
We also know that if we just randomly invite players to this forum, not looking at level of difficulty at all, a high chance would be that many of the players we invite are people that do not really enjoy taiko, and instead just come to the forum for the sake of coming to the forum, and post for the sake of posting. We don't want that.
What I have said thus far has only expressed the constraints and limitations of such regulations to make this place a better one, and the difficulties faced in the process of doing these.
There are no solutions in what I have just posted. Please do actively post possible solutions to this. This is just a build-up of the second half of points that chinkai has made.
My input:
I think there needs to be more forum sections and more specific descriptions for each section. There is, for example, the "Taiko" section with "PS2, wii, Ds, etc". I think the appeal of the "taiko" section could be misleading. In fact, I don't know if we know what to post there, other than console-related things. I would suggest changing the description to welcome questions and discussion. The self introduction section should have a topic for each person, I believe.
Something that turns me off a bit is massive threads. I stopped going to the chit-chat section because there was so many posts inside each thread to file through. I believe that if we are able to create a little more organization, there will be less massive threads. Massive threads also turn off newcomers. Think about it, if you want to join a discussion, you feel obligated to read all the posts in the thread (or most of it) before you feel remotely confident about posting a reply. The only way people will feel welcomed to post is if they become apart of the first few posts of a thread (or start the thread themselves), so they know what's really going on in the discussion.
Do you notice, though, how people are trying to create "rooms" in threads? This is causing massive thread build up. There is a displeased thread, happy thread, "random" thread, funny video thread... People should feel free to create a new thread of their own, they shouldn't feel obligated to reply to a thread if they are feeling displeased, happy, random. Let's say I had a bad day taiko-ing, and I want advice on if I should practice taiko-ing when I'm in a bad mood. If I post a new thread about this, I can be sure that all the replies will be about practicing taiko-ing on a bad day. If I post this in the "displeased" thread, then any new replies could be about anything... Like 4chan. >.<
I think though, that the chit-chat section has become a black hole. It's like a wild card, you can post ANYTHING there. Personally, I don't see that working out well. We should probably have a "random" section, and a "community" section. Community would be anything related to the forum, us, taiko-related chit chat. and random would be... anything NOT related to Taiko.
So, my thought is that smaller threads = more welcoming. Let's lighten up on the "Post your ____ here thread!" and "The ____ thread!" threads.
And the descriptions for the sections, although cute, should be a little more assertive and descriptive. I don't think we should be shy to say "No posting ____ here!". And chit-chat = black hole.
EDIT: I made some word choice changes and organized this a little better.
Pyrozz- Head of Simulation Development
Re: Elitism and Organization
by Pyrozz Tue Nov 18, 2008 4:19 am
One other thing... I think only moderators and admins should be able to change the color of the topic titles. It's misleading when people can change a topic to neon pink, it makes it seem as though it's a more important topic.
Pyrozz- Head of Simulation Development
Re: Elitism and Organization
by ongchinkai Tue Nov 18, 2008 9:06 am
Let's see if I understood you. You're in favour of people having the freedom to create threads as and when they please, instead of having to find a thread to which what they want to say belong and then posting there, creating a long thread in the process.
Come to think of it, I'd actually prefer that - well, at least that's what I see in most forums.
Come to think of it, I'd actually prefer that - well, at least that's what I see in most forums.
ongchinkai- 半人前
Re: Elitism and Organization
by Pyrozz Tue Nov 18, 2008 9:23 am
ongchinkai wrote:Let's see if I understood you. You're in favour of people having the freedom to create threads as and when they please, instead of having to find a thread to which what they want to say belong and then posting there, creating a long thread in the process.
Come to think of it, I'd actually prefer that - well, at least that's what I see in most forums.
Yes, that is correct. If we have threads that have open-ended titles like "Funny thread" then people will feel rude about posting a new thread of something funny. We must stay away from duplicate threads, yes, but we can't shouldn't have broad-titled threads, because it eliminates smaller threads. Thus causing massive threads.
Pyrozz- Head of Simulation Development
Re: Elitism and Organization
by Admin Wed Nov 19, 2008 1:30 am
Note: Topic colors removed
As the population grows, there will be more threads and stuffs like some other forums.
Chit-Chat section is suppose to be anything under the sun.
So do you think the Chit-Chat deserve another section of it's own, instead of this subsection now?
In addition, if I get you correct, there will be 2 sections: "random" section, and a "community" section as suggested.
These will be the main section under their own. (Eg. Music Cafe is a section of its own)
So how about the sub-sections under these "random" & "community"?
Do suggest some ideas here. It's time to make Taiko Dojo more organized.
Please note: Those who post off-topic and non-constructive comments here, your post will be deleted without any warning.
As the population grows, there will be more threads and stuffs like some other forums.
Chit-Chat section is suppose to be anything under the sun.
So do you think the Chit-Chat deserve another section of it's own, instead of this subsection now?
In addition, if I get you correct, there will be 2 sections: "random" section, and a "community" section as suggested.
These will be the main section under their own. (Eg. Music Cafe is a section of its own)
So how about the sub-sections under these "random" & "community"?
Do suggest some ideas here. It's time to make Taiko Dojo more organized.
Please note: Those who post off-topic and non-constructive comments here, your post will be deleted without any warning.
Admin- Administrator
Re: Elitism and Organization
by Pyrozz Wed Nov 19, 2008 11:07 am
Well, this hard to explain because I suppose I am not familiar with Forum vocabulary.
So, I suppose a section would be like Music Cafe? Then what are sub categories called? Sub-categories?
Well, this is what I had in mind...
(This is just a suggestion on how to organize it)
The Dojo
++Rules and Guidelines (Probably best to merge with "Read me da don")
++Announcements (Updates, forum announcements etc)
++Introduce Yourself
++Community (This is a lot like chit-chat, but pertains to discussion about each other, about taiko-ing... It's like a chit-chat but only Taiko and taiko dojo)
(::Idea, merge the Ranking section with Community. Achievements will be welcomed to post as individual threads. Rankings, hall of fame will be sticky.)
++Events and gatherings
++Suggestions
Taiko (Questions about games, discussion)
++Links, references, resources. (This would be Taiko Sim, song list info, Mini Games, namco website links. Good idea to post collections of Taiko links and resources as a sticky)
++Taiko Arcade
++Taiko PS2/ Wii
++Taiko DS/PSP (Put them together maybe? not very much activity, so combine them?)
Other Stuff
++Taiko Videos
++Exchange goods/ Merchandise (shopping mall, possible have people post toys and plushy here instead. Even though it's not to sell. Might be a good idea to combine)
++Music Room
++Everything else (Not sure what to call it, random? This would be anything NOT taiko. Forum games etc...)
Thanks for removing the color feature. One other thing, btw, if we start to use the score database a lot, then we could put a link at the top of the page along with Forum, FAQ, etc...
I think it would be important to establish what kinds of posts go where. In the descriptions of sub-categories, it should be clear what kinds of things should be posted there.
So, I suppose a section would be like Music Cafe? Then what are sub categories called? Sub-categories?
Well, this is what I had in mind...
(This is just a suggestion on how to organize it)
The Dojo
++Rules and Guidelines (Probably best to merge with "Read me da don")
++Announcements (Updates, forum announcements etc)
++Introduce Yourself
++Community (This is a lot like chit-chat, but pertains to discussion about each other, about taiko-ing... It's like a chit-chat but only Taiko and taiko dojo)
(::Idea, merge the Ranking section with Community. Achievements will be welcomed to post as individual threads. Rankings, hall of fame will be sticky.)
++Events and gatherings
++Suggestions
Taiko (Questions about games, discussion)
++Links, references, resources. (This would be Taiko Sim, song list info, Mini Games, namco website links. Good idea to post collections of Taiko links and resources as a sticky)
++Taiko Arcade
++Taiko PS2/ Wii
++Taiko DS/PSP (Put them together maybe? not very much activity, so combine them?)
Other Stuff
++Taiko Videos
++Exchange goods/ Merchandise (shopping mall, possible have people post toys and plushy here instead. Even though it's not to sell. Might be a good idea to combine)
++Music Room
++Everything else (Not sure what to call it, random? This would be anything NOT taiko. Forum games etc...)
Thanks for removing the color feature. One other thing, btw, if we start to use the score database a lot, then we could put a link at the top of the page along with Forum, FAQ, etc...
I think it would be important to establish what kinds of posts go where. In the descriptions of sub-categories, it should be clear what kinds of things should be posted there.
Pyrozz- Head of Simulation Development
Re: Elitism and Organization
by Admin Wed Nov 19, 2008 4:15 pm
Categories will be what you referred as "sections" (eg. General Admin, Don & Kat-chan Room, Taiko no Tatsujin, Taiko Hall of Fame, Music Cafe & Archives) These are called the Categories.
And inside each of these Categories, is what I called as "sub-categories" (eg. Inside General Admin category, there's Rules & Guidelines + Updates sub-categories).
So according to your suggestion, there are 3 Categories (The Dojo, Taiko, Other Stuffs). Right now we have 7 Categories.
Any other suggestion for a more organized forum?
And inside each of these Categories, is what I called as "sub-categories" (eg. Inside General Admin category, there's Rules & Guidelines + Updates sub-categories).
So according to your suggestion, there are 3 Categories (The Dojo, Taiko, Other Stuffs). Right now we have 7 Categories.
Any other suggestion for a more organized forum?
Admin- Administrator
Re: Elitism and Organization
by ongchinkai Wed Nov 19, 2008 7:58 pm
What we can do is to refer to other forums (not just taiko) and see how things are organized there. It's better than us trying to come up with something entirely from scratch.
ongchinkai- 半人前
Re: Elitism and Organization
by Pyrozz Thu Nov 20, 2008 6:04 am
ongchinkai wrote:What we can do is to refer to other forums (not just taiko) and see how things are organized there. It's better than us trying to come up with something entirely from scratch.
Yeah, I got some ideas for that organization outline from a successful forum I am apart of.
Pyrozz- Head of Simulation Development
Re: Elitism and Organization
by ongchinkai Fri Nov 21, 2008 2:00 am
For a start I think we can merge the subforums for taiko NDS and PSP into "taiko portable" or something like that.
We don't have to implement the changes in one sweeping move, do we?
We don't have to implement the changes in one sweeping move, do we?
ongchinkai- 半人前
Re: Elitism and Organization
by yuu_yuki Fri Nov 21, 2008 2:28 am
How about Taiko no Tatsujin Handhelds?
Lolz~
Lolz~
yuu_yuki- Moderator
Re: Elitism and Organization
by ongchinkai Fri Nov 21, 2008 2:37 am
anything. just so long that one look and it makes sense that it's for portable platforms.
ongchinkai- 半人前
Re: Elitism and Organization
by ongchinkai Sun Nov 23, 2008 2:50 am
Oh, and while we're about it...I think we should have one subforum specially for self-introduction? That could come under README, actually. That way the amount of chat can be reduced.
The existing introduction thread is too long and, like pyroz mentioned, it's very daunting for a newcomer to post there because s/he will feel obliged to read through the history. Perhaps the existing thread can be "renamed"? Then once we have a special subforum for random chatting it can be moved there?
The existing introduction thread is too long and, like pyroz mentioned, it's very daunting for a newcomer to post there because s/he will feel obliged to read through the history. Perhaps the existing thread can be "renamed"? Then once we have a special subforum for random chatting it can be moved there?
ongchinkai- 半人前
Re: Elitism and Organization
by yuu_yuki Sun Nov 23, 2008 2:56 am
So the existing thread "renamed" to??
Ya, should have another thread for self-introduction ONLY and nothing else.
xD
And READ ME DA DON is actually for those who still haven't sign up to read - as in before you login, you can't view any post except for that read me da don. xD
Ya, should have another thread for self-introduction ONLY and nothing else.
xD
And READ ME DA DON is actually for those who still haven't sign up to read - as in before you login, you can't view any post except for that read me da don. xD
yuu_yuki- Moderator
Re: Elitism and Organization
by ongchinkai Sun Nov 23, 2008 2:57 am
How about putting it under "General Admin"? I believe self-introduction should at least be a formality, but that's just me.
ongchinkai- 半人前
Re: Elitism and Organization
by yuu_yuki Sun Nov 23, 2008 3:02 am
General Admin is for Admin purpose only.
So it can put under like "THE DOJO" kind of things like pyrozz suggested??
But actually wanna see more suggestion here though. haha
So it can put under like "THE DOJO" kind of things like pyrozz suggested??
But actually wanna see more suggestion here though. haha
yuu_yuki- Moderator
Re: Elitism and Organization
by ongchinkai Sun Nov 23, 2008 3:06 am
I'll take more time to think about how to organize the forum properly after my exams. Right now I can only think of things in small steps.
By the way, can subforums contain more subforums?
By the way, can subforums contain more subforums?
ongchinkai- 半人前
Re: Elitism and Organization
by yuu_yuki Sun Nov 23, 2008 3:12 am
If you see Admin post:
"Categories will be what you referred as "sections" (eg. General Admin, Don & Kat-chan Room, Taiko no Tatsujin, Taiko Hall of Fame, Music Cafe & Archives) These are called the Categories.
And inside each of these Categories, is what I called as "sub-categories" (eg. Inside General Admin category, there's Rules & Guidelines + Updates sub-categories)."
So those sub-categories inside is all threads.
lolz
"Categories will be what you referred as "sections" (eg. General Admin, Don & Kat-chan Room, Taiko no Tatsujin, Taiko Hall of Fame, Music Cafe & Archives) These are called the Categories.
And inside each of these Categories, is what I called as "sub-categories" (eg. Inside General Admin category, there's Rules & Guidelines + Updates sub-categories)."
So those sub-categories inside is all threads.
lolz
yuu_yuki- Moderator
Re: Elitism and Organization
by ongchinkai Sun Nov 23, 2008 3:22 am
Oh...well that's alright too. I can work with that too.
Some of the following I'm going to mention are already present, but I'll just present everything I had in mind (incomplete sketch). I'm thinking of subforums for the following:
Guest
Admin
* R&G
* updates
* suggestions
Game discussion
* general information (e.g. song lists)
* arcade
* console
* portable/handheld
* simulation & other programs in development
Community
* self-introduction ONLY
* events & gatherings
* game-related chat/videos
* rankings/achievements
Random (for all other chats, like forum games, or just random chatting)
Feel free to (dis)agree with me.
Some of the following I'm going to mention are already present, but I'll just present everything I had in mind (incomplete sketch). I'm thinking of subforums for the following:
Guest
Admin
* R&G
* updates
* suggestions
Game discussion
* general information (e.g. song lists)
* arcade
* console
* portable/handheld
* simulation & other programs in development
Community
* self-introduction ONLY
* events & gatherings
* game-related chat/videos
* rankings/achievements
Random (for all other chats, like forum games, or just random chatting)
Feel free to (dis)agree with me.
ongchinkai- 半人前
Re: Elitism and Organization
by yuu_yuki Sun Nov 23, 2008 3:31 am
Haha, no guest, only members for discussion and viewing of topics. =P
Your's is somehow similar to Pyrozz suggestion too, lolz~
Your's is somehow similar to Pyrozz suggestion too, lolz~
yuu_yuki- Moderator
Re: Elitism and Organization
by ongchinkai Sun Nov 23, 2008 3:48 am
His is very detailed, but personally I don't see the need for so many subforums yet. Perhaps next time we'll have them when the need arises, but for now, this is fine.
ongchinkai- 半人前
Re: Elitism and Organization
by yuu_yuki Sun Nov 23, 2008 3:54 am
"This is fine"? You mean which one is fine? @.@
yuu_yuki- Moderator
Re: Elitism and Organization
by ongchinkai Sun Nov 23, 2008 11:51 am
As in I feel that the number of categories I proposed should serve us fine for now. We can add more in future on request, because right now several subforums are looking too empty.
ongchinkai- 半人前
Re: Elitism and Organization
by Pyrozz Sun Nov 23, 2008 3:42 pm
ongchinkai wrote:Oh...well that's alright too. I can work with that too.
Some of the following I'm going to mention are already present, but I'll just present everything I had in mind (incomplete sketch). I'm thinking of subforums for the following:
Guest
Admin
* R&G
* updates
* suggestions
Game discussion
* general information (e.g. song lists)
* arcade
* console
* portable/handheld
* simulation & other programs in development
Community
* self-introduction ONLY
* events & gatherings
* game-related chat/videos
* rankings/achievements
Random (for all other chats, like forum games, or just random chatting)
Feel free to (dis)agree with me.
I am glad we are on the same page. I think we should continue this discussion until we refine the layout until it's satisfactory.
I see you have the Community category, but I think we need an actual sub-category for community threads.
Also, we should keep in mind that we need to offer something to attract the Taiko Dojo. What makes this site valuable to newcomers and search engines is valuable content. So we must keep the sub-categories that hold the references, links, and such organized. This is why I think we should have a separate category for merchandise and song info. The GENERAL INFO sub-category would be too broad for all taiko-related references. If we keep all our resources and posts organized it will make us look better as a forum and it will make us appear to have quality content that is resourceful.
And again, I think rankings and achievements should be merged into a community sub-category.
I highlighted my suggestions to your outline:
Admin
* R&G
* updates
* suggestions
Community
* self-introduction ONLY
* events & gatherings
* game-related chat/videos
(merge the Ranking section with Community. Achievements will be welcomed to post as individual threads. Rankings, hall of fame will be sticky.)
* Community
Game discussion
* Resources and References (including song info, beat maps, site links, merchandise, etc)
* arcade
* console
* portable/handheld
* simulation & other programs in development
Random
I rearranged a bit too...
I agree though, we don't need too many Sub-categories, but we need SPECIFIC categories so we can be more organized. I may have been misleading in my first post about needing more categories, but ultimately organization I think is the key.
Buuut, it wouldn't kill us to have 1 or 2 dead sub-categories, if it means being more organized.
Input?
Pyrozz- Head of Simulation Development
Re: Elitism and Organization
by ongchinkai Sun Nov 23, 2008 4:43 pm
OK, I'm taking a break from mugging so I can't stay too long.
@roz: I think it's not a good idea to remove the Guest subforum because according to the admin, that's the only one that guests can see. We should keep that one, and put something flashy there to attract people.
@roz: I think it's not a good idea to remove the Guest subforum because according to the admin, that's the only one that guests can see. We should keep that one, and put something flashy there to attract people.
ongchinkai- 半人前
Page 1 of 2 • 1, 2
Page 1 of 2
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum